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Who would win out of Kuja and Sephiroth not including Dissidia fighting?

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The Following content is an opinion

Do not allow it to offend or cause problems, such as flame wars. These opinions are also not the official opinions of Final Fantasy Answers, which can be taken to be a neutral point of view.

In my opinion, Kuja. Sephy may have summoned a meteor to destroy the world, but it was stopped at the last moment. Kuja, on the other hand, managed to destroy an entire planet.

My opinion, Seph.

At the basic level, Kuja. He is an immensly powerful Black Mage and can summon monsters, whereas Sephiroth is simply an inhumanly talented swordsman. At full power Trance Kuja succeeded in destroying an entire planet with Ultima, and Sephirioth became immortal and would have destroyed the Planet without the intervention of Holy. So at full power it's basically rocket tag, whoever can fire off their doomsday device first, wins. 13:45, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

^ I liked this answer!!

I suppose it would be Kuja. Both of thme were basically raised to kill, and both of them could absorb a good amount of souls at some point. Theoretically, they have the same start bonus. However, Kuja proved himself to be way more competent, considering that he burned down a whole world with ease in a matter of minutes. Sephiroth needed to stay in this crater forever, and had to use a summon materia to bring a comparable fate to his planet. Albeit I have to admit that Kuja had quite an easy boss battle compared to Sephiroth, he still would easily destroy him.

I want to deviate a little from previous answers because this sort of question always brings about answers sporting two major arguments: The difficulty of the characters in question as Boss Battles in-game; Their ultimate power as per the last moments and/or peak.

I highly doubt this is the desired reply, for two reasons.

a) Their in-game battles are not relevant. Anything that is directly linked to the Gameplay elements are very relative, and tailored to make the game playable. In all realism, the antagonists would have killed the protagonists long gone, and your game would have been over. I don't even see why people ask "Why didn't he kill them?" when, if they truly did, their game would be over.

b) Using the character's ultimate power should not be relevant, as they are, as the name implies, ultimate spells or plots that would render any other kind of action irrelevant, or otherwise cancel eachother out based on first-come-first-served basis. I don't know if people ever truly got the referrence, but beyond Square's impending doom of failure, "Final Fantasy" refers to the ultimate powers that would inevitably kill/save the World in each particular title.

Had to get that out, so on with the answer!

Being realistic in this type of setting is, obviously, not possible. Both characters don't exist in reality, and if they would, that simple fact would distort the very laws of nature, physics and heck, even logic that we've grown acustomed to use.

Sephiroth is a character that can fit multiple roles in battle. Kuja, however, lacks physical prowess. Why is this relevant?

Considering Sephiroth is, by far, much faster than Kuja, as soon as Sephiroth got into close-range which, by all means, could probably prove to be challenging but by no means impossible, Kuja would have a very hard time deflecting Masamune.

Kuja's powerful casting is threatening - sure - but I wouldn't really pit it very far against Sephiroth's own casting prowess. People seem to admittedly forget that Sephiroth had enough magic power to actively summon Meteor - no brainless "Swordsman" could EVER hope to do this.

Kuja has the Trance, which largely multiplies his power. But, again, this STILL limits him to casting.

Genesis, along with Sephiroth, was largely built for combat, and alongside Angeal both constructed the perfect balance between Casting and Melee, multiplied through two bodies. I would argue that Kuja would never be able to stand a chance against both Genesis and Angeal at the same time, all things considered, there are two of them. Disregarding battle system logics (such as Phoenix Down and "Turns"), Kuja is only one individual - again, extremely limited to casting - and would be felled with ease.

Now, keep in mind that Sephiroth EASILY handled both Angeal and Genesis during a training at the Level-49 (no doubt a funny reference to Sephiroth being at Lvl50 in your party during the flashback, but I digress) facility at the Shinra HQ. And he did this prior to traveling through the Lifestream to obtain all of that knoledge and fusing with JENOVA.

What did Kuja do that was so mindshattering before the final moments? He... summoned Bahamut? Not that exciting, considering even Cait Sith could have done that in Final Fantasy VII, provided you equip the correct Materia.

There is absolutely no logical reason to ever believe that any antagonist would defeat Sephiroth. Even Nomura HIMSELF already said that it makes no sense to ever try to develop any antagonist that was to be more charismatic or powerful than Sephiroth - this is the reason why Genesis ended up so "wussy".

In conclusion, not only do I believe Sephiroth would destroy Kuja, I believe Sephiroth can pretty much stand against any Antagonist in the series and defeat them. We're NOT talking about "ultimate powers" here, people. That is totally irrelevant. Any antagonist has world-breaking ultimate powers by endgame time, and for that simple reason, they could all just be the same damn thing - it would all boil down to who uses it first.

And even IF you were to insist that ultimate powers are relevant. Sephiroth is still unarguably physically stronger and faster than Kuja is. What was to stop him from summoning Meteor before Kuja used Ultima? Kuja, at the very least, needs to be in Trance for that to even happen.

Thank you for reading,

{C}PS: Please do not take anything I say offensively. I am merely sharing my own opinion, and I will respect any of yours as much as my own.

RebornAleph 21:13, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

^Just some things I'd like to say about that. I don't think that Sephiroth, albeit indeed faster and stronger physically, would be THAT hard for Kuja to handle. Kuja got bombarded by Bahamut and only got a minor scratch. Plus, I don't rememeber Sephiroth's magic power to be anything close to what other villains came up with, including Kuja's. Summoning Meteor may not be an easy task, but it also doesn'T proves you to be THAT strong of a mage. Kuja proved some strong defensive abilities, and I don't think the Masamune could break him so easily as you describe it. Since he, too, was raised to be a killer machine, and that by a civilization that is (probably) much older and way more developed than Shinra, that really sounds quite unrealistic. Also, this thing you said about the ultimate powers: Kuja, AT THE VERY LEAST, needs to be in Trance? Yeah, and Sephiroth took a bath in the lifestream, in case you forgot! *include the typical stuff about opinions and respect here, cause I'm too lazy to write it down* Have a nice day.

I'd say Kuja. If Sephiroth can let himself be defeated by a sixteen year old footsoldier (at the height of Seph's career, might I add), then I doubt he'd be able to hold his own against a planet-destroying Angel of Death. Sure, Sephiroth was caught off guard, but 16 year old Cloud still kicked his butt. Besides, Kuja was strong enough to kill the party with Ultima despite being at the brink of death, AND was still strong enough to bring them back from the afterlife.

This is a very good point, but still a somewhat moot one. While it is true that Sephiroth was caught off-guard by a 16-year old Cloud, he was hindered by madness, amongst the shock of actually seeing what he believed was his mother for the first time in his life. He was, effectively, distracted.
That said, Cloud didn't really "kick his butt". In the multiple canon results of the Nibel Mako Reactor Incident, Sephiroth isn't really defeated by anyone but his own distractions. In some of the instances, all Cloud really does is push him off the ledge, then being left to bleed. In other occasions, Sephiroth willingly jumps into the Mako stream.
And, finally, to paraphrase myself:
"We're NOT talking about "ultimate powers" here, people. That is totally irrelevant. Any antagonist has world-breaking ultimate powers by endgame time, and for that simple reason, they could all just be the same damn thing - it would all boil down to who uses it first.
And even IF you were to insist that ultimate powers are relevant. Sephiroth is still unarguably physically stronger and faster than Kuja is. What was to stop him from summoning Meteor before Kuja used Ultima? Kuja, at the very least, needs to be in Trance for that to even happen."
RebornAleph 10:40, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

^ Yep Kuja 22:05, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really know who would win but I'd say Kuja... Don't really know why... As for the "ultimate power" thing: Ultima is vastly superior: Meteor takes a week to fall and Ultima destroyed a planet, I don't see why it couldn't blow up Meteor. Then to RebornAleph: you contraddicted yourself. You said that you need to be a great spellcaster to summon Meteor using Black Materia, and then you say that summoning Bahamuth is nothing impressive, since Cait Sith can do that with the proper materia. But it's written nowhere that Sith couldn't summon Meteor with BM too, if materia and a bunch of MP is all what you need...

Actually, it is written all throughout the game. Sephiroth himself states that in order to use the Black Materia, large amounts of energy has to converge to a single place - the Lifestream being the perfect conduit to do so. Even so, Bugenhagen's studies on the Huge Materia eventually reveal that it takes a superior and superhuman entity to use either the Black, the White or any of the Huge Materia. Not just anyone can use it.

RebornAleph 22:00, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

This is why i don't like this kind of questions, ppl seems to NOT give up on their belifes, we should just accept what a another guy thinks and sez without the " yeah BUT ain't good enough mage" and yata yata, it would be more fun for us to say "hmm ok yeah, this is what i think, Kuja, Seph, Moogle is the strongest one" and then it should stop there, without the comeback lines, cuz in the end we have all choosen a fav villain, character, animal etc and we won't get persuaded.. So keep it simple guys ;) and to just add my answer too, i think Sephiroth would have win cuz i agree alot on the statements Reborn came with, and just let it stay that way, you can up with a Kuja statement without me trying to tell you otherwise..-Einherjar- 22:20, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

^Hey, at least now that this side got rid of the spammers, there are interesting discussion in a normal behavior!

You wanna know my opinion? Hmm... Refia wins. --Shadow Catuse: 22:31, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

^ oh noes tha adminz is trolling now D=

Catuse167 - A friendly vandal-bashin' and troll-smashin', admin!
Contact - Posted at 22:37, December 27, 2011 (UTC) - Your lucky color rhymes with orange!
I was being sarcastic because of all the arguing. Honestly? I think it'd be a tie. But since we can't have a tie without fanboys screaming that their side didn't win, I gave Refia the honors.

Actually, I'll suggest this to Nemesis for the next Rift battle.

I understood that ;) i was actually agreeing with you.. -Einherjar-22:45, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

I personally agree to a tie. If it all boils down to ultimate attacks, it is just as a fellow poster mentioned before. It's just all over who shoots first. Besides, the logic and laws of their Worlds are different. In one world, character X would be stronger due to reason Y. However, since reason Y does not exist in Character Z's world, then it is rendered useless. So it would have to be on neutral ground and... following the same set of rules and regulations and... Oh well. Just too much hassle to consider, given it's just a casual question.

We all just have to agree that the characters would all end up killing themselves in the process of destroying eachother. That sounds about right!

(Also, as a personal and humble request, please don't spoonfeed the situation. I could have just as easily really have been a fanboy, and would have very likely taken offense to your comment. I was merely providing consideration ground. Take my answers with a grain of salt, if you will, or otherwise I beg of you to not read my words in an arrogant inner voice. I assure you, I mean no harm to anyone, especially not this website. I don't really like to read an answer that just flat-out gives me names. If I was curious/confused about a concept such as this question, I would very much like to be given reasons as to consider both sides equally. Names answer nothing beyond the personal opinion of eachother.)

RebornAleph 00:00, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

So, RebornAleph, just out of curiosity... if you had to choose one person to be stronger, disregarding how long it takes to summon meteor and all that technical stuff, who would you choose?
Disregarding all technicalities? Hironobu Sakaguchi since he created the whole damn thing! Haha, but seriously. My personal opinions may gravitate toward Sephiroth, definitely. Not that I like the character - because I don't - nor that I am a Final Fantasy VII fanboy (I agree with Mister Sakaguchi, Final Fantasy IX was always my favorite). But because Sephiroth has already been recognised as a superior fighter, even by Nomura! And I don't much like disagreeing with the people who obviously know more of those characters than all of us do, since they... well, MADE them o_õ.
RebornAleph 19:15, December 28, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, but Kuja wins. Kuja is born and raised to be a trained killer. He was literally born for that purpose. He doesn't have physical weaknesses as it's assumed and Sephiroth isn't faster than him. Kuja's speed is beyond normal and so is his power. Yes, Sephiroth is the strongest Soldier. Big whop. He needed 7 years to do something Kuja did in two seconds of going insane. Kuja is able to destroy an entire planet's life in Trance mode. Sephiroth cannot do that in his strongest form as the Meteor attack is confirmed to be an illusion by the Squaresoft creators. It took Sephiroth 7 years to get the Black Materia to summon a meteor to destroy one section of an entire planet because of his delusion that he could ascend to godhood because he believed that he was an Ancient.
Kuja was able to shrug off Bahamut, wipe out entire armies, and then an entire planet, and further go on to wipe out the very source of life itself. He murdered Garland and Zidane wasn't able to stop Kuja from his plan to destroy the crystal of life. Kuja wins by a mile. Even after his apparent suicide attack, he was still able to keep going and stopped the final boss from outright killing Zidane's group to make sure they safely got away.
There is no contest. Kuja can kill Sephiroth in an instant; for that matter, so can Ultimecia and Sin.

arbitrary breakEdit

I didn't mean YOU are a fanboy... I just meant that it's happened before. Especially on the FFWiki. Big time. --Shadow Catuse: 03:04, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

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